Posts by Separation of Powers

70

2014 YB Up. Partakers 13,204

by LostGeneration in

jw
friends

that is all.

link.

Not surprising. I expect that it will go up every year from here on out. It is my opinion that the numbers will increase as DO's CO's and others see that the majority of the current GB are younger than many of them and the ONLY reason THEY have not become GB is because of the Great Crowd status. Easily fixed, have a drink and a bite of bread...you're in the mix! Then, just wait for a few years while some of the older GB die off and the opportunity will present itself.

Others, too, see these young GB members and figure, "why not?"

SOP

108

"Jehovah ALWAYS had/used an organization". How would you reply?

by EdenOne in

in a recent meeting with elders, an argument was used to the effect that jehovah has always [= throughout history] used, or operated through, an organization; therefore, the wts must be that organization today, since god must be using one.

naturally, i know what arguments i've used to counter that argument.

but i'm interested in hearing yours.

Separation of Powers

My response:

"Yes, that it true. I have always believed that Jehovah had an organization, some group of people that were organized to represent his interests here on earth. In fact, THAT is one of the reasons that got me to realize that the current organization is no longer God's channel, if in fact, it ever was."

"What do you mean by that?" the reply.

"Well, although the organization didn't teach an apostolic succession like the Catholics and Mormons do, they did teach that when Jesus founded the Christian congregation that he told his apostles, Peter in particular, that even the "gates of Hades would not overpower" what he established on the earth. So, when he died, the apostles carried on the work and even when they died, as the Society used to say, "there was always a small group of faithful anointed" entrusted with carrying on."

"Yes, that's right. That's what we've always believed." the emphatic reply.

"You mean, that is what the organization USED to teach. Now, the organization's position is that after the death of the last apostle, the apostacy rapidly wiped out pretty much all vestige of the Christian congregation, Jehovah's organization. It was left nearly destitute of any true and verifiable anointed follower up until 1918-1919, when the "faithful slave" came to exist. So, essentially the belief now is that Christ's congregation, what he established so that "even the gates of Hades" couldn't overpower it was wiped out with a simplistic article that placed the modern day Governing Body from Rutherford to now in a position greater than any of those faithful Christian who were martyred, those titans of language and earnest study that made the Bible accessible to the common man, much to their own peril. THOSE people are not VERIFIABLE anointed, so they don't matter and thus, there was no organization of people to look after the interests of God on Earth for those 2000 years."

"OK, I didn't know that." quizzical response.

"You should probably look it up."

SOP

31

Where else is there to go?

by snare&racket in

jw
friends

when i left the jw's, close friends and some elders discussed my desicion with me,without fail they all concluded the same thing.... "but where else is there to go?!".

at the time, the question just confused me, i could not see why it confused me or the very telling nature of such a comment.

i never thought that once.. firstly, this indicates that many jw's remain jw's simply because of this tunnel vision perspective... everything in their periphery is valueless, but the wt on which they focus is everthing.

Separation of Powers

Thank you for sharing this post.

The question, "Where else is there to go?" is the standard reply when all else fails. It is the quintessential cognitive dissonance response. When you have spoken your piece about the hypocrisy, the double standard, the failed prophecy, the child abuse scandal, the UN scandal, the blatant revisionism, the lack of love, the authoritarian structure similar to the Catholic Church hierarchy and everything else there is WRONG with this organization, well, how do you respond to that? It's like in their mind they are saying, "Yes, yes, yes, I understand that and yes, it's true, but we've invested so much time and effort and sacrifice. Is this all for naught?" So, they look at you, perplexed and bewildered and slightly envious of the fact that you have mentally disconnected yourself from the process and hit you with the only response left...

When Peter was asked, "You do not want to go away also, do you?" His reply, "Lord to WHOM shall we go? YOU have words of enteral life." (John 6:67,68) His reply was an expression of faith in his teacher and the words of his teacher. He believed that Jesus was the Son of God. So, when someone asks that same question to a person who has lost faith, interest or regard for the organization, it is simply an expression of their faith in the organization, the same organization that has taken the place of Jesus, a substitute if you will.

I have heard that question myself, and I have answered it with the same basic premise. I do not need SOMEWHERE else. The same people who would ask that question are the ones that would say, "being part of the organization can't save you, it's what's in your heart. Jehovah judges hearts." Well, he can judge mine separately and distinctly from a group of drones...can't he?

SOP

38

Utah man goes on hunger strike to the death to protest same-sex marriages

by adamah in

you can't make up this kind of religious nut-job fanaticism:.

http://www.4utah.com/story/utah-man-fasting-to-stop-same-sex-marriages/d/story/k9sjvlgmmeuberqg9aeobq.

although in retrospect, it's no more extreme than those jws who die refusing blood.... adam.

Separation of Powers

What a shame...

20

Why do the Governing Body do it ??

by Phizzy in

when i was an active jw the constant demands for loyalty and obedience to the gb used to really annoy me, and mrs phizzy.. why on earth do they do it in such a shrill, screaming and obvious way ?.

they sound like spoilt kids, "you must play the game our way".. it was partly that constant harping that really helped me to wake up, i came to see just how much they had usurped the place of jesus.. surely it is counter-productive to do the demands as they do, loud and blatant.

they could get the same results with a seemingly humble attitude, after all, the new pope is the vicar of christ by title, but he comes over as humble..

Separation of Powers

When Jesus taught, his words were simplistically elegant. He taught to a crowd laden with the illiterate and dispossessed. He taught at their level. It was a new form of teaching and his passion moved people to follow and share their beliefs with others. As the believers grew in numbers, there arose the need for supervision, as the supervision grew, the need for the establishment of orthodoxy. As the orthodoxy became more defined, a need for a hierarchy to oversee the correct application of orthodoxy and to determine, typically by some supernatural ability, what should be considered , in fact, orthodoxy. As the hierarchy grew so did the need to address the material needs of the hierarchy, aka clergy. Afterall, how could they be expected to address their own material needs as they expounded SOOO much effort in taking care of the spiritual needs of the laity? That is how you form a religion.

Now, you many think, "he's talking about the Catholic Church." To which, I reply, "No, I am not." This same process can be found with any, I repeat, any religious order. For the JW's the evolution has been the same. Russel promotes a simplistic teaching standing on the shoulders of those who came before, promoting the gospel of Jesus as "new and improved" similar to Joseph Smith or the not-often- mentioned Mary Baker Eddy. He claims no supernatural ability at first, simply a preacher of the gospel. His simplistic foundation is taken up by JF Rutherford, who, as the believers grow, sees a need to establish more supervision to tote the party line, individuals loyal to the "cause of truth." As the supervision is established, so too, the establishment of orthodoxy. The infallibility of the organization is founded on the principal of "we are the select" of God, and make-or-break religious creed and dogma begin to take center stage, and subsequently, a movement is made to distinguish the organization among other organizations. With the established orthodoxy in place, from JF Rutherford to Knorr, and subsequently to the current GB, the hierarchy is defined. Status is commensurate with position which is commensurate with prestige which is commensurate with blessing and salvation. Now, the words of Jesus, "no one comes to the Father except through me" evolves to equate to the expression, "no one comes to the Father except through US.". THAT is the how and the WHY.

SOP

42

The END did NOT come in their lifetime!!

by DATA-DOG in

i don't know about the rest of you, but i have seen my fair share of death.

both sets of grandparents, aunts and uncles, older jws that were pillars in the community.

i even knew the first missionary in missouri, a brother named gerald golf.

Separation of Powers

Ah yes, mortality. Many older ones that I know are resolute in knowing the end will not come in their lifetime. For some, the words of the pre-75 era, "but we DO KNOW THE YEAR!" are resonating in their heads. Like many of you, I have buried too many "believers." So many wasted hopes and dreams, so much wasted potential and promise. It is very sad.

This type of experience, over the past few years particularly, moved me to examine my own view on death. It has helped me to embrace a mindset that I must live in the present. I must appreciate those I love and care for with each day, letting go of the pettiness that was ingrained in me by the Pharisaical mentality of the organization. Each moment, too precious, too valuable to waste on wondering about tomorrow. The beliefs that all life's problems will be solved when the end arrives makes it impossible to appreciate the miracle of TODAY.

With the kindest of regard,

SOP

58

The truth about Hispanic JWs in the United States

by Hecce in

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i will like to share some facts about the spanish congregations in usa.

Separation of Powers

@ Hecce,

I won't contend with anyone with regard to the current power base. As with all things Watchtower, the powerbase is existing and will take probably another decade before it is in need of replacing. When one considers where the Spanish speaking brothers were compared to where they are now...it is night and day. They have much more of a say and in some areas, true not ALL areas, but is some areas THEY are the force to be reckoned with. But to emphasize my point... Quick question...who is the Zone Overseer for the North America, Central and South America? Does anyone know?

SOP

139

Ever consider joining The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

by rawe in

has anyone here left jehovah's witnesses to join the churuch of jesus christ of latter-day saints?

what was your motivation for doing so and how has it worked out?.

if you haven't joined the lds or considered it, as an ex-jw, what is your general view of the lds faith?.

Separation of Powers

A great organization made up of some intelligent people that realized the importance of marketing.

Personally, I have an issue with the magic undies, the ties to Solomon Spalding, the modern day prophet and apostolic succession, the golden tablets and Urim and Thummin that disappeared, the many wives thing, the change in basic doctrines, and the Osmonds...

SOP

14

So, today I ran into one of my accusers that were on my jc

by label licker in

and she tried to act as if she were by best friend, hugs and all.

i told her the elders were dirty getting her and her family to come in at the last minute and be my accusers yet none of them could remember anything from six years ago.

i told her this was all on account of her brother.

Separation of Powers

Life is too short to waste it. Glad you got it off your chest..

70

New Study Exposes Acupuncture As Pseudoscience

by alecholmesthedetective in

besides it being pseudoscience, what interests me about this is that even though it's something to do with the "qi" energy flowing in our bodies, that wasn't a problem for some members of my family or a special pioneer i knew.. new study exposes acupuncture as pseudoscience.

Separation of Powers

Well, one must consider the source of the study...few medical doctors would declare acupuncture to be valid. Just as few doctors claim that chiropractic is valid and helpful. Years ago, I went through a course of acupuncture and found it quite helpful. Just as friends of mine claim that their chiropractor is a "godsend" or that the herbal supplements they take are helpful.

The body is a complex organism. It is not a motor or powerplant with parts. What helps one, may not be helpful to someone else. But to state that it is pseudo science is PSTEUPID!

SOP